Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp    RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
General Board
 *O.B.C* - Forum : The *O.B.C* Forums : General Board
Message Icon Topic: Ice Man's 2nd floor Remodel - Help Please! Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 8 Next >>
Author Message
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: June 11 2014 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by X O.B.C Member

Update?


Haven't had a chance to do much work, still gutting, still removing old insulation. Going to be cleaning up a bit and setting up a laser level to see just how bad things are out of square upstairs.

Current job situation has me thinking I may need to keep my budget as low as possible. This may become a rental unit in the near future. The master bath wouldn't need to be completed right away as long as I had a functioning main bath.

In the attic today, found a high school Latin exam from the late 50's, and some newspaper from 1965 placed under a stack of old shingles.




Edited by Ice Man - June 11 2014 at 8:19pm
IP IP Logged
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: August 19 2014 at 11:16pm
I am having the worst time removing that old insulation. It's probably some form of cellulose that was untreated and has since deteriorated down to almost a powder. It's worse than plaster dust.

Anyway. I've been kicking around the idea of vaulting the ceiling on the second floor. Perhaps not the whole thing , but just in the front and in the back by creating a scissor truss and removing the old joists. Has anyone had any experience doing this?

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to reinforce the roof rafters, currently 2x4 rough cut, with 2x6s and then proceed to create something like this:

http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/uploads/5227/Scissor-Truss.jpg
IP IP Logged
Vindictive
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member

-=Vindicator=-

Joined: June 03 2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2192
Quote Vindictive Replybullet Posted: August 20 2014 at 11:11am
amazing how a few ideas for fixing up turn into a complete remodel.
watch for old newspapers stuffed into the walls, depending on how old the structure is, might find some interesting things.


IP IP Logged
IvIi$$
*O.B.C*Team Member
*O.B.C*Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 982
Quote IvIi$$ Replybullet Posted: August 22 2014 at 8:24pm
Hell watch for the millions. When you find them let me know and I will book my flight. <hugs>

Miss
Give me liberty or give me death.
IP IP Logged
Conan
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3227
Quote Conan Replybullet Posted: August 22 2014 at 11:41pm
I wouldn't recommend it, you have to build them in place and sorry I do not think you have the experience. You would be better off carrying the load with beam underneath the ridge and sister up the rafters, then you can cut away the joist.

As long as you have your load points taken all the way down to foundation.  

Edited by Conan - August 22 2014 at 11:42pm
"The leftists cannot think for themselves...they have already given into the spirit of collectivism"
IP IP Logged
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: August 23 2014 at 6:15pm
That's one issue with the current layout. The load points do not go straight to the basement. Compare 1st floor drawing to the 2nd floor drawing.

I'm dealing with balloon construction, which I have a basic understanding of. I'm not sure if the front and back of the house have enough support in the walls to carry that of a lvl beam in the attic. I'm also trying to keep costs down. A beam like that requires an engineer and a crew to install it. Whereas building scissor joists in place is something I can do on my own time. May still need an engineer for guidance, but at least I'm not paying $5,000 for a beam. Sound reasonable?


IP IP Logged
Conan
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3227
Quote Conan Replybullet Posted: August 23 2014 at 7:29pm
Well they would have to be built in place and installed working around existing rafters/joists.....make sure you wear a hardhat because you're going to bang your head.

As for being worth it, I don't see you getting any return out of it unlike having that second bathroom IMO.

I forgot how to upload a picture to this forum but I can show you a large rafter I built that supported the entire roof from underneath. It wasn't easy. 
"The leftists cannot think for themselves...they have already given into the spirit of collectivism"
IP IP Logged
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: August 24 2014 at 3:48am
I think I remember that house - the over engineered beam if I recall correctly?

My attic has a height of 7'9" give or take, which makes it ideal for storage, but not so much for an extra room as the most width I could get is about 7 feet, probably less after having the space finishe, so that idea is out. The attic floor joists are rough cut 2x6's and if you recall in the walk-through video, I already have issues to contend with regarding those joists. The roof rafters are rough cut 2x4's on 16 inch centers. Not legal by today's standards. [edit: no other supports, no trussing, no collar ties, no ridge beam, not even a ridge board]

My thought process is that if I vault the ceilings slightly, roof is ~7/12, so I could get maybe 3/12 on the ceiling, it would help to add some height to the rooms (currently 7'6" I think) and allow me to add ceiling fans, etc. But also, it would take some weight off the floors.



Edited by Ice Man - August 24 2014 at 3:50am
IP IP Logged
Conan
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3227
Quote Conan Replybullet Posted: August 24 2014 at 5:13pm
If you go to my website and look under cabinets you will see that truss.

What I would do then if your insist on doing this is to sister up the rafters with 2x6's, then crossover  another 2x6 to upper third of rafter on other side, do that on both sides and then slide in another 2x6 in between the two new rafters half way up the slope.....that would be your tie rafter.

And then bolt together at four intersections.

That's probably the easiest without killing yourself.


Edited by Conan - August 24 2014 at 5:15pm
"The leftists cannot think for themselves...they have already given into the spirit of collectivism"
IP IP Logged
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: August 25 2014 at 7:55pm
Put together another video describing visually what I am looking at.

Roof rafter, vaulting

If I change the floor plan around I will have no choice but to re-engineer the beam. The attic floor (second floor ceiling) is not level and is 6 inches too low for my taste. Vaulting the ceiling would solve several issues, including removing load from the center of the house for which is not carries directly to the basement.

I did leave out one part of the truss in the video, it's there in pencil, just didn't mention it.

Conan, what do you think?

IP IP Logged
Conan
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3227
Quote Conan Replybullet Posted: August 25 2014 at 10:26pm
You got the idea but as I said I would still slide in a tie between those two crossover rafters. You can slide that tie up and down to give yourself a small flat ceiling.

Bolt the 4 points and the center once you have your elevation. Use plywood gust to fashion the collar tie new rafters.

The more you disperse the load the better. But you do need that tie to prevent the load pushing out the walls.

Your idea will work but actual scissor truss locked in with tie is better. Wink
"The leftists cannot think for themselves...they have already given into the spirit of collectivism"
IP IP Logged
Ice Man
*O.B.C* Team Member
*O.B.C* Team Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3028
Quote Ice Man Replybullet Posted: August 26 2014 at 3:38am
Now I'm wondering if using 2x6's is unnecessary.





IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 8 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.